26

Re: Trump

oh, i don't dispute that he probably feels that way,  he just never said it

the boy your mother wanted you to meet

Re: Trump

Make Amway great again

Re: Trump

Make Amtrak late again

Re: Trump

Vote 4 Trump on Montgomery Ward tablet

Re: Trump

Can someone explain to me why so many americans would/will vote for Trump (35-40%?). Please remember, I live in Europe and I apparently don't know that much about you people in the USA! USA! USA! Explain to me like I'm a 12 year old cause I just don't fucking get it.

"It´s a fine line between clever and..eh.. stupid"

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31 (edited by sleepysilverdoor 2016-06-13 15:43:57)

Re: Trump

swede wrote:

Can someone explain to me why so many americans would/will vote for Trump (35-40%?). Please remember, I live in Europe and I apparently don't know that much about you people in the USA! USA! USA! Explain to me like I'm a 12 year old cause I just don't fucking get it.

I think a lot of 'Mericans are xenophobic gun kissing religious zealots who prefer to forsake the golden rule and worship at the altar of intolerance and greed. It is scary to think about the number of conservative (selfish) toads in this country, but even scarier to think about the toads that would support Donald Trump.

edit: apologies--I think very highly of amphibians. I shouldn't have tarnished toads by comparing them to conservatives and Trump supporters.

watch out for the gypsy children in electric dresses they're insane
i hear they live in crematoriums and smoke your remains

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Re: Trump

sleepysilverdoor wrote:
swede wrote:

Can someone explain to me why so many americans would/will vote for Trump (35-40%?). Please remember, I live in Europe and I apparently don't know that much about you people in the USA! USA! USA! Explain to me like I'm a 12 year old cause I just don't fucking get it.

I think a lot of 'Mericans are xenophobic gun kissing religious zealots who prefer to forsake the golden rule and worship at the altar of intolerance and greed. It is scary to think about the number of conservative (selfish) toads in this country, but even scarier to think about the toads that would support Donald Trump.

edit: apologies--I think very highly of amphibians. I shouldn't have tarnished toads by comparing them to conservatives and Trump supporters.

This country has a lot of poor white-skinned humans who refuse to accept the fact that they have a bit in common with the poor brown-skinned humans that they once owned and treated like animals. This culture of racism is so deeply ingrained in them that I believe their worst fear -- greater than ISIS or al shabaab or the taliban, greater even than sharing a restroom with a trans person (gasp!) -- is being associated with the "real" lower class, aka, those pesky brown humans. Some of these people are 60 years into a life of low wages, living paycheck to paycheck, and they're still clinging to the great possibility and promise that's wrapped up in the "American Dream" -- the bullshit boot-straps narrative. In many cases they're too stubborn or dumb to take the help that's offered by the government, and they begrudge all those who do accept that assistance and see it as a critical flaw in the fabric of their being.

They're coming off of 8 years under a president with brown skin, who rose to the top political position in their country, and who they are now primed and ready to blame for its EVERY. SINGLE. PROBLEM. As if that fire needed more fuel, the extreme wealthy in this country (who stand to benefit from Trump's intended oppression of the poor) are pumping millions into the Trump media machine.

Oh, and then you have the crazy religious people who have basically been scammed into believing that a vote for any republican candidate will get them a step closer to heaven. In their twisted game of Candy Land, voting republican is like drawing one of the fancy cards that shoots you all the way to the top of the board and into the Ice Cream Sea to chill with Queen Frostine before gliding into victory at the Candy Castle.

In short, Donald Trump is a fucking wet dream for the depraved trash of this country. The question is, how much trash is in the landfill? I've been making more and more heartbreaking discoveries in my own life -- that people who I once loved and admired and looked up to have turned out to be not just questionable or saddled with minor flaws, but honest-to-goodness BAD people.

And of course most bad guys believe vehemently that they are the good guys.

So, what the fuck next?


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33

Re: Trump

setyabacksetyabacksetya wrote:

Some of these people are 60 years into a life of low wages, living paycheck to paycheck, and they're still clinging to the great possibility and promise that's wrapped up in the "American Dream" -- the bullshit boot-straps narrative.

oh it's worse than that.  because they've been told that the only reason they haven't struck it rich yet is that the government and taxes are holding them back.  that they don't earn a living wage because the government is TOO strict with businesses and these poor billionaires just can't afford to pay them more!  if only we did away with ALL government oversight and regulation, then the businesses could finally run properly and everyone would be rich!  (except those lazy ne'er-do-well minorities, of course)

the boy your mother wanted you to meet

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Re: Trump

bob wrote:
setyabacksetyabacksetya wrote:

Some of these people are 60 years into a life of low wages, living paycheck to paycheck, and they're still clinging to the great possibility and promise that's wrapped up in the "American Dream" -- the bullshit boot-straps narrative.

oh it's worse than that.  because they've been told that the only reason they haven't struck it rich yet is that the government and taxes are holding them back.  that they don't earn a living wage because the government is TOO strict with businesses and these poor billionaires just can't afford to pay them more!  if only we did away with ALL government oversight and regulation, then the businesses could finally run properly and everyone would be rich!  (except those lazy ne'er-do-well minorities, of course)

good additions, yes. i suppose if i'm going to rant i should be thorough.


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Re: Trump

setyabacksetyabacksetya wrote:
sleepysilverdoor wrote:
swede wrote:

Can someone explain to me why so many americans would/will vote for Trump (35-40%?). Please remember, I live in Europe and I apparently don't know that much about you people in the USA! USA! USA! Explain to me like I'm a 12 year old cause I just don't fucking get it.

I think a lot of 'Mericans are xenophobic gun kissing religious zealots who prefer to forsake the golden rule and worship at the altar of intolerance and greed. It is scary to think about the number of conservative (selfish) toads in this country, but even scarier to think about the toads that would support Donald Trump.

edit: apologies--I think very highly of amphibians. I shouldn't have tarnished toads by comparing them to conservatives and Trump supporters.

This country has a lot of poor white-skinned humans who refuse to accept the fact that they have a bit in common with the poor brown-skinned humans that they once owned and treated like animals. This culture of racism is so deeply ingrained in them that I believe their worst fear -- greater than ISIS or al shabaab or the taliban, greater even than sharing a restroom with a trans person (gasp!) -- is being associated with the "real" lower class, aka, those pesky brown humans. Some of these people are 60 years into a life of low wages, living paycheck to paycheck, and they're still clinging to the great possibility and promise that's wrapped up in the "American Dream" -- the bullshit boot-straps narrative. In many cases they're too stubborn or dumb to take the help that's offered by the government, and they begrudge all those who do accept that assistance and see it as a critical flaw in the fabric of their being.

They're coming off of 8 years under a president with brown skin, who rose to the top political position in their country, and who they are now primed and ready to blame for its EVERY. SINGLE. PROBLEM. As if that fire needed more fuel, the extreme wealthy in this country (who stand to benefit from Trump's intended oppression of the poor) are pumping millions into the Trump media machine.

Oh, and then you have the crazy religious people who have basically been scammed into believing that a vote for any republican candidate will get them a step closer to heaven. In their twisted game of Candy Land, voting republican is like drawing one of the fancy cards that shoots you all the way to the top of the board and into the Ice Cream Sea to chill with Queen Frostine before gliding into victory at the Candy Castle.

In short, Donald Trump is a fucking wet dream for the depraved trash of this country. The question is, how much trash is in the landfill? I've been making more and more heartbreaking discoveries in my own life -- that people who I once loved and admired and looked up to have turned out to be not just questionable or saddled with minor flaws, but honest-to-goodness BAD people.

And of course most bad guys believe vehemently that they are the good guys.

So, what the fuck next?

This is beautiful and sums up most of my feelings perfectly.

I'd add:
- "Clinton" is a bad word in this country. I'm not going to tell you I think she's perfect and that anyone should vote for her. But to me people that don't support Clinton have a moral obligation to either find a 3rd party to vote for, or stay the fuck home, even if that means it gives Clinton the election. Because Trump is breathing, walking, talking 21st century bigotry. I imagine he's a lot like many of the right wing parties that have sprung up in Greece, Spain, and Italy in recent years.

Anyhow, the point was to say that there are millions of people that lived through the '90s talk radio machine and are well-conditioned to equate the name "Clinton" with the lowest thing imaginable.

- To the above point, add that this time around, the Clinton in question is a woman. Can't have no womens bein presidunt, speshly not after that dark skinned muslim feller took us into soshilizum.

- In a more general sense, politics in America is a team sport. See Paul Ryan effectively saying last week, "Yeah, what Trump said is the textbook definition of racism, but I'm voting for him and endorsing him anyway" because he's on the Red Team.

I'm still optimistic that this will end up a blip on the American political radar. But it's gotten a lot worse than I expected and it's incredibly disheartening. I should certainly issue a partial mea culpa to a lot of the goings on in the above portion of the thread.

I would boil my argument to anyone planning on voting for Trump down to one question/statement -- "But he's a bigot."

If you are going to vote for Trump, you have to reckon with that. Good luck. I hope at the very least you deal with a lot of mental anguish in thinking that through.

- Nathan

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Re: Trump

nguideau wrote:
setyabacksetyabacksetya wrote:
sleepysilverdoor wrote:

I think a lot of 'Mericans are xenophobic gun kissing religious zealots who prefer to forsake the golden rule and worship at the altar of intolerance and greed. It is scary to think about the number of conservative (selfish) toads in this country, but even scarier to think about the toads that would support Donald Trump.

edit: apologies--I think very highly of amphibians. I shouldn't have tarnished toads by comparing them to conservatives and Trump supporters.

This country has a lot of poor white-skinned humans who refuse to accept the fact that they have a bit in common with the poor brown-skinned humans that they once owned and treated like animals. This culture of racism is so deeply ingrained in them that I believe their worst fear -- greater than ISIS or al shabaab or the taliban, greater even than sharing a restroom with a trans person (gasp!) -- is being associated with the "real" lower class, aka, those pesky brown humans. Some of these people are 60 years into a life of low wages, living paycheck to paycheck, and they're still clinging to the great possibility and promise that's wrapped up in the "American Dream" -- the bullshit boot-straps narrative. In many cases they're too stubborn or dumb to take the help that's offered by the government, and they begrudge all those who do accept that assistance and see it as a critical flaw in the fabric of their being.

They're coming off of 8 years under a president with brown skin, who rose to the top political position in their country, and who they are now primed and ready to blame for its EVERY. SINGLE. PROBLEM. As if that fire needed more fuel, the extreme wealthy in this country (who stand to benefit from Trump's intended oppression of the poor) are pumping millions into the Trump media machine.

Oh, and then you have the crazy religious people who have basically been scammed into believing that a vote for any republican candidate will get them a step closer to heaven. In their twisted game of Candy Land, voting republican is like drawing one of the fancy cards that shoots you all the way to the top of the board and into the Ice Cream Sea to chill with Queen Frostine before gliding into victory at the Candy Castle.

In short, Donald Trump is a fucking wet dream for the depraved trash of this country. The question is, how much trash is in the landfill? I've been making more and more heartbreaking discoveries in my own life -- that people who I once loved and admired and looked up to have turned out to be not just questionable or saddled with minor flaws, but honest-to-goodness BAD people.

And of course most bad guys believe vehemently that they are the good guys.

So, what the fuck next?

This is beautiful and sums up most of my feelings perfectly.

I'd add:
- "Clinton" is a bad word in this country. I'm not going to tell you I think she's perfect and that anyone should vote for her. But to me people that don't support Clinton have a moral obligation to either find a 3rd party to vote for, or stay the fuck home, even if that means it gives Clinton the election. Because Trump is breathing, walking, talking 21st century bigotry. I imagine he's a lot like many of the right wing parties that have sprung up in Greece, Spain, and Italy in recent years.

Anyhow, the point was to say that there are millions of people that lived through the '90s talk radio machine and are well-conditioned to equate the name "Clinton" with the lowest thing imaginable.

- To the above point, add that this time around, the Clinton in question is a woman. Can't have no womens bein presidunt, speshly not after that dark skinned muslim feller took us into soshilizum.

- In a more general sense, politics in America is a team sport. See Paul Ryan effectively saying last week, "Yeah, what Trump said is the textbook definition of racism, but I'm voting for him and endorsing him anyway" because he's on the Red Team.

I'm still optimistic that this will end up a blip on the American political radar. But it's gotten a lot worse than I expected and it's incredibly disheartening. I should certainly issue a partial mea culpa to a lot of the goings on in the above portion of the thread.

I would boil my argument to anyone planning on voting for Trump down to one question/statement -- "But he's a bigot."

If you are going to vote for Trump, you have to reckon with that. Good luck. I hope at the very least you deal with a lot of mental anguish in thinking that through.

^good points as well.

i'm not sure these folks are even capable of that kind of introspection.

Re: Trump

i just saw a person wearing a trump shirt for the first time this weekend. I stared.

(Not in DC - in North Carolina, for the record.)

We need the birds.
I understand, but the files are organized alphabetically.

Re: Trump

Thanks for your replies guys! Kinda what I thought but still scary but feel a little better knowing there are people like you over there...:)

"It´s a fine line between clever and..eh.. stupid"

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Re: Trump

swede wrote:

Thanks for your replies guys! Kinda what I thought but still scary but feel a little better knowing there are people like you over there...:)

I truly don't believe he can win the general election. There's a lot of hate for Hillary in the country but I think an awful lot of it just overlaps with the Trump sub-section, not pulling voters from the Dem side. I don't think the electorate that re-upped w/ Obama (by 5 million votes / 4%) just 4 years ago has changed THAT much.

Re: Trump

Trump spelled backwards is what I say when I am totally shitfaced.


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Re: Trump

setyabacksetyabacksetya wrote:
swede wrote:

Thanks for your replies guys! Kinda what I thought but still scary but feel a little better knowing there are people like you over there...:)

I truly don't believe he can win the general election. There's a lot of hate for Hillary in the country but I think an awful lot of it just overlaps with the Trump sub-section, not pulling voters from the Dem side. I don't think the electorate that re-upped w/ Obama (by 5 million votes / 4%) just 4 years ago has changed THAT much.

Personally, I've spent my entire adult life disliking Hillary and dreading that she would one day be elected.  That is all out the window now. I will definitely vote for her. 100%.  For the record, normally I vote outside the two parties, and I blame our two party system with its red vs blue mentality for putting me in this position.  (And speaking of red vs blue, I think it is an INSULT to the nation that Obama's Supreme Court nominee has not been processed). 

I would also like to say that I have attempted to post to this thread several times but get overwhelmed and don't know where to stop and end up just not posting it. This Trump creature is explosively repulsive to me. 

He's so completely ... un-American!

Anyway, I desperately hope you are right that he can't win. I really worry. I didn't think he could get the Republican nomination but here we are.

Re: Trump

Trump aside, I go back and forth on my feelings about HRC. On the one hand, most "scandals" involving her are either latent sexism -- tying missteps of her husband to her, because you know, women be owned by men -- or they feel manufactured in the standard political sense.

But then there are things that are tough to shake -- the poor decision making regarding the private email server (I don't care that Powell did it, too -- someone else making a bad choice doesn't exonerate someone else's bad choice); the unwillingness (at least thus far) to show the world what those Goldman speeches were all about (at best, they show nothing meaningful, and obfuscating things here just adds to the negative narrative about her); the taste for military intervention (I know a lot of people made the wrong vote on Iraq, but there were enough people that made the right vote for the right reasons without the benefit of hindsight, so there is on excuse).

In the grand scheme of politics, these are not major things, but they are still things, and I'd like to be able to expect better from our presidential candidates.

Many of us dirty libs didn't know how good we had it with Barry until it was effectively too late, huh.

- Nathan

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Re: Trump

Jicky wrote:

He's so completely ... un-American!

Anyway, I desperately hope you are right that he can't win. I really worry. I didn't think he could get the Republican nomination but here we are.

He's through-and-through American. There are two Americas. And I don't think they are split across the "47%" and the rest. Or the 1% and the 99%. Or the 0.1% and the 99.9%. Or any of the other convenient narratives.

There's the America that Trump embodies, then there is the America that the Jixboard embodies. There is no perfectly broad brush, but if there's one thing that Trump has laid bare it is that there's a plurality of America that is racist and sexist, doesn't see a problem with it, and has no desire to change... nay, the actively desire staying that way. Then there's the rest of us, who aren't perfect -- there are sexists and racists among us, and we have shit to fix, but even those bigots among this latter group see what Trump lays bare, are looking in the mirror, and are horrified at what they see.

- Nathan

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44 (edited by muzak 2016-06-23 07:47:02)

Re: Trump

Jicky wrote:

I blame our two party system with its red vs blue mentality for putting me in this position.

I say make a statement by voting Lib or not voting. The two party system where each candidate has to shoehorn themselves into a mold of what is expected, be it left or right, whether they actually believe it or not/afraid to toe the line, has always felt like such BS to me. This is why I checked out of politics long ago (can't even believe I'm posting this). Crucify me if you wish, but I don't want to participate in voting for a "lesser evil". If there was ever someone I wanted to vote for, I would...and have. Not voting provides the satisfaction of knowing that I did not sanction or legitimize the offerings of the two major parties. If I vote for the lesser of evils and hold my nose, my vote is blended in with millions of others—there is no way to register my dissatisfaction with the choices the two major parties have given me. There is no way to separate those who voted for a lesser of two evils from those who voted because they actually LIKED the candidate. If, say, 5 million people vote Lib, as opposed to only 1 million, that might make a (fruitless) statement. But should I waste my time? Because the two party system will never change.


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Re: Trump

muzak wrote:
Jicky wrote:

I blame our two party system with its red vs blue mentality for putting me in this position.

I say make a statement by voting Lib or not voting. The two party system where each candidate has to shoehorn themselves into a mold of what is expected, be it left or right, whether they actually believe it or not/afraid to toe the line, has always felt like such BS to me. This is why I checked out of politics long ago (can't even believe I'm posting this). Crucify me if you wish, but I don't want to participate in voting for a "lesser evil". If there was ever someone I wanted to vote for, I would...and have. Not voting provides the satisfaction of knowing that I did not sanction or legitimize the offerings of the two major parties. If I vote for the lesser of evils and hold my nose, my vote is blended in with millions of others—there is no way to register my dissatisfaction with the choices the two major parties have given me. There is no way to separate those who voted for a lesser of two evils from those who voted because they actually LIKED the candidate. If, say, 5 million people vote Lib, as opposed to only 1 million, that might make a (fruitless) statement. But should I waste my time? Because the two party system will never change.

'zak, this is what I have told people that are seriously considering Trump because they have such disdain for Clinton. They acknowledge he's a bigot and that it pains them to consider voting for him, but for whatever reason, Clinton the lowest of the low to them. If you really feel Hillary is responsible for #benghazi or whatthefuckever, cool, don't vote for her, but more than a non-Trump vote is an implicit vote for Hillary, a vote for Trump is an explicit support of bigotry.

- Nathan

46

Re: Trump

i recall the same narrative about sarah palin being "a heartbeat away from the presidency!"  and obviously about bush, and pretty much every election cycle.  the republican will always be worse than the democrat.  if we keep nominating bland centrists because we're only trying to beat the other guy and not actually enact any real change, we're gonna end up with shitty results forever.  also the way the dnc has acted in this campaign is a joke.  clinton has always had high unfavorable ratings, yet she was pushed down our throats from day one.  the funny thing to me is that this whole time clinton supporters have been yelling that we have to vote for her in order to beat trump, but as soon as numbers show that sanders would be a more favorable matchup, they're suddenly saying that the general election numbers don't matter this far out.  also all through the primaries you saw them saying that, well, it's sanders' fault for not convincing more people to vote for him.  yet now they're already selling the story that if clinton loses it's all the fault of whiny progressives (or the pejorative of choice, "bernie bros") and not an actual failure on their candidates part.  it's a joke

that being said, if i lived in a swing state i'd probably still vote for her.  as it stands i'll be voting for jill stein and praying the sanders campaign at least has some effect on the dnc just enough that we might get a real candidate at some point

the boy your mother wanted you to meet

47

Re: Trump

i also think it's fair game to call her out for Bill's "missteps" when those missteps are policies that she vocally supported and continues to vocally support

the boy your mother wanted you to meet

Re: Trump

Also - why is Hillary so generally hated? She seems to be broadly sound on most stuff, you know, for an American :-)

Bend over!
Hi Ben

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49 (edited by Jicky 2016-06-24 05:22:08)

Re: Trump

nguideau wrote:
Jicky wrote:

He's so completely ... un-American!

Anyway, I desperately hope you are right that he can't win. I really worry. I didn't think he could get the Republican nomination but here we are.

He's through-and-through American. There are two Americas. And I don't think they are split across the "47%" and the rest. Or the 1% and the 99%. Or the 0.1% and the 99.9%. Or any of the other convenient narratives.

There's the America that Trump embodies, then there is the America that the Jixboard embodies. There is no perfectly broad brush, but if there's one thing that Trump has laid bare it is that there's a plurality of America that is racist and sexist, doesn't see a problem with it, and has no desire to change... nay, the actively desire staying that way. Then there's the rest of us, who aren't perfect -- there are sexists and racists among us, and we have shit to fix, but even those bigots among this latter group see what Trump lays bare, are looking in the mirror, and are horrified at what they see.

You're right, in a lot of ways, and I hate to face it.

What I really meant with that "un-American" is that most politicians, left or right, have or at least pretend to have a respect for people in the sense of the Declaration of Independence's "inalienable rights" kind of way.  He doesn't even PRETEND to listen to people. Shouting people down and removing people, rather than responding to their arguments the best way you can just seems so antithetical to our system where people are supposed to have representation, and a voice. Even dissenters get their day to speak and be heard, right?  Also, this hatred of Mexicans is a huge step backwards into a darker era. And the intolerance of Islamic people goes against the heroes I was raised to admire and revere (such as James Madison, Thomas Jefferson... or that fellow who founded Rhode Island, Roger Williams). When I hear the phrase Make America Great Again, that's exactly what comes to my mind: these people who stood up for tolerance, and people like MLK. 

But thinking about it now, I realize that American also means forcing the natives out of their homes by any means, and justifying it by saying that they are "savages".


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Re: Trump

bob wrote:

that being said, if i lived in a swing state i'd probably still vote for her.  as it stands i'll be voting for jill stein and praying the sanders campaign at least has some effect on the dnc just enough that we might get a real candidate at some point

Bingo. The DNC is currently a total fucking joke. They underestimated the enthusiasm of younger voters. They underestimated the depth of the progressive shift that folks under 35 or 40 years old have taken these last 8 years (we have mimicked Obama's leftward shift with a powerful magnifying glass over it). They assumed that because that cohort was broadly supportive of Obama, that they could position a candidate as a continuation -- but they completely miscalculated the fact that we haven't all forgotten about the 2008 primary and we know that there are deep and significant differences between Obama and Clinton... differences that are more prevalent as Obama's presidency ran its course.

All of these missteps by the DNC caused them to miss out on a primary that, in my view, could've yielded two candidates that would've been superior to either Clinton or Sanders -- Elizabeth Warren, or even poor old robotic Martin O'Malley, who, for all the boringness of his primary campaign, actually has a strongly liberal (if not progressive) resume that was buried between Clinton's money machine and Sanders's bluster.

bob wrote:

i also think it's fair game to call her out for Bill's "missteps" when those missteps are policies that she vocally supported and continues to vocally support

You're not wrong. What I said about latent sexism in this situation isn't across the board. Undoubtedly, if the publicly supported policies that you disagree with or have panned out poorly, she should be criticized for them, regardless of whether or not they were or were not her husband's positions. The latent sexism, in my view, creeps up a lot more in discussions about Bill Clinton, the "good politician" but "bad man."

Jicky wrote:

What I really meant with that "un-American" is that most politicians, left or right, have or at least pretend to have a respect for people in the sense of the Declaration of Independence's "inalienable rights" kind of way.  He doesn't even PRETEND to listen to people. Shouting people down and removing people, rather than responding to their arguments the best way you can just seems so antithetical to our system where people are supposed to have representation, and a voice. Even dissenters get their day to speak and be heard, right?  Also, this hatred of Mexicans is a huge step backwards into a darker era. And the intolerance of Islamic people goes against the heroes I was raised to admire and revere (such as James Madison, Thomas Jefferson... or that fellow who founded Rhode Island, Roger Williams). When I hear the phrase Make America Great Again, that's exactly what comes to my mind: these people who stood up for tolerance, and people like MLK. 

But thinking about it now, I realize that American also means forcing the natives out of their homes by any means, and justifying it by saying that they are "savages".

I completely agree.

- Nathan